Md88Captain From United States, joined Nov 2001, 1162 posts, RR: 15 Posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2292 times:
DAL annouced today that it will switch its 737-200 fleet out of MCO and transfer the 737-200's to mainline fleet (CVG). Taking the place of the 737's will be DAL's new competive iniative that has not been annouced in its final form. I have read that express routes will see 757's in Nov or Dec, but little else has been announced.
Bobcat From United States, joined Jun 2007, 0 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2266 times:
Did they give the reason for the switch? I'm guess the 737s do not have the capacity of the 757... I've flown on DL Express 737 a few times. All coach. Who could pass up their offer of $39 roundtrip from the Northeast to Orlando?
Bucky707 From United States, joined Aug 2000, 1009 posts, RR: 3 Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2230 times:
the reason for the swith is that JetBlue, Southwest and Airtran are killing Delta in MCO. The 737-200 is not exactly a low cost airplane, not to mention the competion has brand new aircraft, which appeal to pax. The 757 and 738 will be going into MCO. The 757 will be fitted with one class, and in that configuration, has the lowest seat costs of any narrowbody aircraft. Lots of cheap seats to compete with the low cost airlines.
Flynavy From United States, joined Mar 2002, 3265 posts, RR: 20 Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2200 times:
Bucky707:
Killing DL at MCO? Perhaps the Express operation is in jeopardy, but surly not all of DL's operations here. Care to elaborate? I figured Delta made this move because of Express' increasing popularity and a desire to reduce per-mile costs of seats (which you did mention). But the low-fare carriers killing DL? Seems a bit exaggerated.
MD88Captain:
Has there been any official announcement as of yet? The most interesting part of this story is that, according to you, the Express 73S' will be transferred back to mainline service. I expected them to be phased-out, possibly being replaced by the 73G or further 738's. Can you elaborate/speculate on what routes they will serve? You mentioned CVG...
DeltAirlines From United States, joined May 1999, 6059 posts, RR: 9 Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2197 times:
This is making me quite happy. I am flying DLX next April from MCO to BOS, so now I guess I get to be on a 757 instead of a 737. The only down part is that I had specifically booked seat 14A so I could see those great thrust reversers in action. Oh well, at least I get to see 737-200s during my 2 hour layover at CVG on the way down.
FlyPNS1 From United States, joined Nov 1999, 3050 posts, RR: 13 Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2120 times:
I think in some cases the 732's will replace the outgoing 727's and in other cases the 732's will replace RJ's that are overflowing. The goal is to better match capacity with demand. DL has a big gap between the 738/MD88 and the RJ. The 732 is dead in the middle and is definitely capable of replacing RJ's on routes like CVG-GRR, CVG-TOL, CVG-CAK, CVG-SBN where the extra capacity is needed.
Md88Captain From United States, joined Nov 2001, 1162 posts, RR: 15 Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2072 times:
An equipment bid was released today that put 75 crew 737-200 crew positions in CVG. This will reestablish the 737-200 position in the CVG base. I imagine the routes will be the same as RJ routes feeding CVG mainline, but I am just speculating on that. They will be mainline aircraft, but I doubt that DAL will reconfigure the interiors (specalation again on my part). The 737-200's will remain on Express for at least 1 more year and I believe all 737-200's will be removed from storage over the next few months.
They are an excellent 100 seater. Paid for and available now.
Spinkid From United States, joined Jul 2001, 894 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2041 times:
I've never seen Delta, or anybody flying from the Northeast to Florida for $39 roundtrip, maybe each way, but even that is pretty rare. $150-$200 roundtrip is the average.
Bucky707 From United States, joined Aug 2000, 1009 posts, RR: 3 Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1956 times:
I won't try to explain how the low costs airlines are killing Delta, other than to say they can provide a better product for a lower cost. JetBlue, in particular, is actually able to charge higher fares than Delta, in addition to their lower costs. Anyway, I found this on the AOL Delta forum:
Subject: Transition of 737-200 Aircraft to Mainline Flying
Starting in January, Delta will begin to close the Delta Express 737-200 category currently based in MCO and move those aircraft to mainline in order to better match capacity with demand. This move will result in the closing of the MCO 737-200 by late 2003.
We did not make this decision lightly, and I would like to take a moment to explain the reasons behind these actions.
Delta Express was introduced in 1996 as a low-fare strategic weapon against the encroachment of low cost carriers (LCCs) into our Florida stronghold. As you may remember, at the time our primary low cost competition in Florida consisted of relatively weak companies such as Air South, Private Jet and Valujet. In order to compete effectively against these low cost carriers Delta had to match their low cost structure as well as low fares.
The 737-200 aircraft was the right aircraft at the right time, but the times have changed. For one thing, the competition is more formidable, with the emergence in Florida of stronger low cost competitors, such as Southwest, JetBlue, and with a stronger AirTran replacing Valujet. In addition, maintenance costs on this aging fleet have risen, as well as pilot costs resulting from PWA 2000 pay increases. These were anticipated increases, but combined
with an increasingly competitive marketplace post 9/11 has resulted in the need to change our response to the LCC threat.
Delta is devising a LCC strategy that not only is designed to answer the competitive threat of LCCs but will help position Delta to win in the new, post 9/11, business environment. John Selvaggio, former vice president of ACS, is leading the development and execution of this LCC strategy. Due to competitive reasons, we cannot share with you details of this new LCC product, but you will be hearing more about the proactive steps we are taking to ensure
our competitive edge.
Srbmod From United States, joined Mar 2001, 13353 posts, RR: 43 Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1909 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
I doubt you will see any 737-800s in DLX service; the current pilots contract does allow for a 737NG, but only the 737-700. I honestly question the idea of using a 757-200 in a low-fare environment. Low fare airlines depend on rapid turnarounds so they can get the maxium utilization of their a/c, and with the 757-200 being such a large aircraft in the narrowbody class, turnaround times could become a factor. I wonder it Delta will just leave the 757-200s they will put into the new low-cost initial in the same layout as they currently are in mainline service? By keeping the Business Class section, they can better attract pax that would be using AirTran's Business Class, and at the same time, earn Skymiles. I think Delta is trying to break their competition, especially AirTran and JetBlue. Southwest will be the hardest of their low-fare competition, because Southwest has always had a fighting spirit, and when you take on Southwest, you're actually taking on the airline and ALL of its' employees. Honestly, I think Delta Express and the "new low-cost initative" ought to be scrapped, because the concept of an airline inside of an airline (other than regional feeders) is always going to be a loser.
Inflation hasn't ruined everything. A dime can still be used as a screwdriver.
GD727 From United States, joined Mar 2002, 925 posts, RR: 12 Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1871 times:
I thought Express was going to keep a few 732's, guess I was wrong. I know they will probobly use 757's to cities like BOS, JFK, and EWR, but if they are not keeping any 732's, what are they going to use for the smaller cities like PVD, ISP, and BDL? I really would like to know this as I will probobly be flying PVD-MCO on DLX in April of next year.
Tcttx From United States, joined Dec 1999, 216 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1837 times:
DL can almost definitely use the 757 in Express at BDL. Before Express was born, DL mainline flew 757s, 767s, and 763s on BDL-Florida routes. Sure, the frequencies might be reduced at BDL, maybe to 3x daily to MCO
Flynavy From United States, joined Mar 2002, 3265 posts, RR: 20 Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1817 times:
Srbmod:
You question the 757 in a low-fare environment, even though the machine does, in fact, have the lowest seat-per-mile cost currently on the market, as mentioned above. What is your basis for your questioning the machine?
I'd hate to change the course of this discussion, but what success (other than their lack of financial success) has National Airlines had with their all-757 fleet?
Md88Captain From United States, joined Nov 2001, 1162 posts, RR: 15 Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1798 times:
I think the most interesting part of this announcement is whether DAL Express will even continue as a brand. Will DAL go one class on 757's and paint DAL Express on the side? How about the rumors that they will put 737-800's on Express as well? Will the 800's go to one class too? Will DAL forget Express and just market Orlando on mainline aircraft? This is all very interesting.
As an aside. The current DAL/Pilot working agreement allows for reduced payrates on for 737-200's and -700's flown on Express. Any other aircraft flown on Express will be flown at mainline payrates. And the 737-200's going into CVG will have payrates the same as the 737-300's.
RJ_Delta From Chile, joined Oct 2000, 1743 posts, RR: 9 Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1791 times:
A Boeing 757-200 in Delta Express, great! I hope that this decision bring more beneficts to Delta. Although I think that the 737-800 is the best option, but the 757 is ok.
One question, Delta will retire the 737-200 Adv. or not?
Md88Captain From United States, joined Nov 2001, 1162 posts, RR: 15 Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1780 times:
I doubt they will retire the 737-200's. DAL has been rumored to be looking hard at 100 seat airliners when of course they got 50+ 737-2's. And the 737-200's they own/lease are among the last off the assembly line. They have plenty of life and useful years ahead.
Flashmeister From United States, joined Apr 2000, 2502 posts, RR: 17 Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1718 times:
I don't care how "new" their 732s are, right now the 732s are relegated to roles with smaller and lowfare carriers. This will not be good for their image.
Consider this choice. Which would you fly?
UA, PDX-PHL: PDX-DEN-PHL, then PHL-ORD-PDX, all on A319/A320 a/c
DL, PDX-PHL: PDX-CVG on a 738, CVG-PHL on a 732, and then the return
Personally, I'd go for the UA flight. 732s are loud and uncomfortable (as I experienced last may on a SAT-DFW flight on a DL 732).
Tu154m From United States, joined Oct 2001, 597 posts, RR: 5 Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1678 times:
Hello!
Today at work(ATL Line Mtc) I was talking to a 757 crew based in LAX and they also said that Express was done as we know it. The 732s will be taken out of Florida and put in CVG. In turn ASA/Comair will get more 70 seat RJs and 90 seat RJs to put into the gap left in Florida. What routes they will be on was not clear. The rumor about the 757s all coach was brought up but no definitive "yes" was given by DL or ALPA. So.......we shall see. I asked the crew why they didn't push for the 737-600 or -700 as we already have trained crews(on the -800) and the cost of operating these newer jets would be less. I guess when you can buy 3 RJ's to one 737NG it carries alot of weight. Also, the cost of paying an ASA pilot vs a DL 737NG crew is about 10 to 1. Just rumors but in this industry rumors usually happen!
Steve
HlywdCatft From United States, joined Jan 2001, 5321 posts, RR: 8 Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 months 2 days ago) and read 1670 times:
**In turn ASA/Comair will get more 70 seat RJs and 90 seat RJs to put into the gap left in Florida.**
Now I just read on here a couple weeks back that Comair was pulling out a lot of operations from MCO. Is Comair/ASA ordering the CRJ 900? Thats news to me.
Md88Captain From United States, joined Nov 2001, 1162 posts, RR: 15 Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1645 times:
Steve. Comair has been moved out of Orlando in favor of Chatacqua (sp?). Comair has ordered no RJ90's and is scoped out of anything bigger than 70 seats.
Flashmeister. The average pax does not know what type of aircraft they are flying when they come to the airport. Most do not know a Boeing from an Airbus. What Mr. Average flier knows is the cost of the fare. Our "new" 737-200's are an excellent choice for our 100 seat markets. As I said before thery are paid for and they are here ready to go.
Bucky707 From United States, joined Aug 2000, 1009 posts, RR: 3 Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1498 times:
**A Boeing 757-200 in Delta Express, great! I hope that this decision bring more beneficts to Delta. Although I think that the 737-800 is the best option, but the 757 is ok.
One question, Delta will retire the 737-200 Adv. or not?**
I think people need to seperate flights to/from MCO and Delta Express. Just because a flight goes into MCO, does not make it an Express flight. 777s have been flying to MCO for a while, but are obviously not part of Express. The 732s are going to the mainline in CVG. Delta will begin to fly 757s on many MCO routes, and probably a few 737-800s. The 757s and 738s will not be part of Express, thought they will be flying to/from MCO. I suspect that the Express name will disappear entirely.
As for the 737-200, short term, it will be transferred back to the mainline, as I said. Long term, it really comes down to whether or not it fills a need on the mainline. If they can find routes where the 732 fit, and will make money, these aircraft could be around for a while. If not, they'll be gone in a few years. But, if I had to guess, I would say that most of the 732's will be around for another 5 years minimum.
FlyPNS1 From United States, joined Nov 1999, 3050 posts, RR: 13 Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1467 times:
I think the 732's will stick around in mainline for a while as they do fill a niche. There have been plenty of rumblings around DL about acquiring a new 100 seater and I think it will happen in a few years...once the economy improves. Once DL chooses the new 100 seater, they will be brought in to replace the 732. Of course, this all just my educated guess.
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