Salomon From Canada, joined Jun 2006, 200 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (1 month 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 1562 times:
Quoting Air Canada: As a result, we have adjusted capacity for the remainder of the year, including late fall suspensions of service to Rome and Osaka. These reductions will allow us to remove four older, less fuel efficient Boeing 767-200 aircraft in addition to what was originally planned.
Wow, it may not be a profit- but that is a huge improvement even with ridiculous jet-fuel prices. What are they going to do about the minimum two-year 787 delay that was also announced this morning?
9252fly From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 594 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (1 month 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1086 times:
Quoting LongHauler (Reply 3): What is the retirement schedule for the 767-200s?
Gone by the end of this year!
The only significant definite change is the A330s will be staying far longer than planned.
The non-definite changes are the continued search for more A321s and B767-300ERs.
No surprise about the B762 fleet. My understanding from some time ago was they would be gone by the start of the summer schedule in 2009. Seems that has been moved up to the end of this year. The A333 fleet should be XM by the early 2009 and the last B773 will have arrived allowing AC to maintain capacity but reduce frequency on the trans-Atlantic for next summer.Not sure how that impacts their ability to retain their LHR slots? I suspect it will be very challenging for AC to acquire A321 in the open market as they are very desirable aircraft at the current fuel prices. On the other hand,RG is getting out of the longhaul business and returning their B763 fleet at the end of the year,with two of them having recently been in the AC fleet(Not sure if they were sub-leased by AC or leased by the owners).
Yyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 14926 posts, RR: 56 Reply 5, posted (1 month 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 890 times:
The operating loss is an improvement, esp. considering higher fuel prices. But high fuel prices are hitting every airline the same. Westjet just posted a profit. It begs to question why AC cannot post operating profits when its closest competitor can.
Time for AC to reduce operating costs further. Starting with the unionized work force.
LongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 1335 posts, RR: 9 Reply 6, posted (1 month 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 796 times:
Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 5): It begs to question why AC cannot post operating profits when its closest competitor can.
It's unfortunate that Air Canada no longer itemizes its profits/losses by regions. I would hazard a guess that Air Canada's domestic and trans-border operations are profitable. Large and diverse carriers like AC are more prone to peaks and valleys than a "one continent" carrier like Westjet. So while Westjet doesn't have the valleys that Air Canada has in the first and fourth quarters, it also doesn't have the huge peaks that AC has in Q2 and Q3 as a result of international routes.
This combined with Westjet's "different" but not illegal accounting practices with respect to maintenance, it is probably more accurate to compare on a calendar year basis.
Your comments with respect to unions is an interesting one. On a seat mile basis, Air Canada's operational staff are cheaper than Westjet's! Even the pilots, that you so like to malign Air Canada's seat mile Flight Operations costs are 68% that of Westjet. But, this makes sense when considering the economies of scale.
However, one area in which I hold Westjet with a great deal of respect is its streamlined corporate structure. There is not one "manager", not one "department", not one non-operational employee that is not essential. Air Canada, (and most legacy carriers) can only dream of this.
Most of this can be pointed at the "Air Canada Act", and its regional and language restrictions. But also, public pressure ... Air Canada is expected to maintain a certain level of service/schedule that no other carrier sees. Westjet moves in and out of markets as market dictates, Air Canada does not have the luxury. Last Summer's YYT-LHR route is a prime example that cost AC close to $10M! In my opinion, AC should have just reminded the people of Newfoundland that they have not been a government airline for 20 years!
On average, more people are killed yearly by falling coconuts (150), than by sharks (10).
LAXintl From United States, joined May 2000, 7897 posts, RR: 10 Reply 8, posted (1 month 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 720 times:
$12mil operating loss is a little meaningless, as at the end of the day, the company still had a Net Loss of CAD$288mil
They can sugar coat things as they wish, however eventually money will flow out in the cargo competition fine, while the foreign currency losses are real also as the moneys value has been wiped out.
Quote: Air Canada's First-Quarter Loss Deepens
May 8, 2008
Air Canada posted a deep first-quarter net loss on Thursday as more than CAD$200 million (USD$198 million) in one-time charges masked better than expected operating results in the face of high fuel prices. In the first quarter, Air Canada had a net loss of CAD$288 million, compared with a year-earlier loss of CAD$34 million.
The charges included a CAD$125 million provision for an investigation by the European Commission, US Department of Justice and the Canadian Competition Bureau into alleged anti-competitive cargo pricing by a number of airlines.
Air Canada had said it would eventually put the provision on its books as risks of costs became greater.
It said it plans several initiatives to help withstand rising fuel costs as oil surged above USD$120 a barrel. They include parking older, fuel-guzzling jets and scrapping marginal routes.
Besides the investigation provision, the charges also included CAD$89 million in foreign exchange losses.
Operating revenue for the quarter was CAD$2.73 billion, up 7.5 percent from the same time last year.
The airline's yield, or revenues per passenger mile, rose 2.2 percent and non-fuel expenses fell 4.8 cents. Overall costs were flat as the fuel bill rose by CAD$130 million.
LongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 1335 posts, RR: 9 Reply 9, posted (1 month 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 689 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 8): They can sugar coat things as they wish, however eventually money will flow out in the cargo competition fine, while the foreign currency losses are real also as the moneys value has been wiped out.
No one is denying those costs don't exist. What is apparent though, is that those costs did not occur in this quarter, they were only accounted for in this quarter.
The cargo competition fines will be levied after all appeals have been exhausted. Canada's judicial system is much like the American system ... that may well take years!
As far as foreign currency losses ... they are only lost if the currency is accessed, which so far, it has not yet been. And depending on cash flow, may never be accessed.
So, why you ask, would Air Canada show costs where they did not yet occur? Well ... Air Canada just began contract negotiations with its union employees ...
On average, more people are killed yearly by falling coconuts (150), than by sharks (10).
Robsawatsky From Canada, joined Dec 2003, 544 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (1 month 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 564 times:
Quoting LongHauler (Reply 6): On a seat mile basis, Air Canada's operational staff are cheaper than Westjet's!
AC 2007 expense per ASM 16.3cents
Westjet 2007 expense per ASM 12.57cents
The above is overall, not just line operational staff, but don't believe that info is publicly available.
Quoting LongHauler (Reply 6): But also, public pressure ... Air Canada is expected to maintain a certain level of service/schedule that no other carrier sees. Westjet moves in and out of markets as market dictates, Air Canada does not have the luxury. Last Summer's YYT-LHR route is a prime example that cost AC close to $10M! In my opinion, AC should have just reminded the people of Newfoundland that they have not been a government airline for 20 years!
AC decides to provide a fleet, schedule and various classes of service for presumably competitive and business reasons not on the basis of altruism. AC has the same freedom to move in and out of many, but not all, markets as it sees fit. The main restrictions being locations where it is the only carrier. The YYT-LHR route was AC's choice to offer and AC's choice to cut.
LongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 1335 posts, RR: 9 Reply 11, posted (1 month 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 532 times:
Quoting Robsawatsky (Reply 10): The above is overall, not just line operational staff, but don't believe that info is publicly available.
You are right, it is not publicly available ... but it is available.
Quoting Robsawatsky (Reply 10): The YYT-LHR route was AC's choice to offer and AC's choice to cut.
Not by a long shot!
The public outcry within Newfoundland was deafening. I am surprised you are not aware of that. Shoot, the debate even bled onto this forum. It was not until the government got involved pressuring AC to maintain the route that it was clear, legally AC was a private company, morally it was not.
The biggest problem was that when the flight operated YHZ-YYT-LHR it was almost always full out of YYT. And ... within AC the YHZ passengers had to compete with the YYT passengers.
It was clear, the only way to prove to Newfoundland that the demand was not there was to operate a stand alone flight ... and it was a financial disaster.
On average, more people are killed yearly by falling coconuts (150), than by sharks (10).
Drgmobile From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 340 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (1 month 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 382 times:
The biggest problem was that when the flight operated YHZ-YYT-LHR it was almost always full out of YYT. And ... within AC the YHZ passengers had to compete with the YYT passengers.
One of the biggest problems was a government requirement that everybody go through border services at the first point of entry into Canada. That meant everybody had to get off the plane in St. John's whether they were continuing on to Halifax or not. It is quite silly, really. If AC wanted to operate the plane into Halifax without picking up passengers in St. John's, the Halifax-destined passengers should have been allowed to clear in Halifax.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 5522 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (1 month 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 269 times:
Quoting Drgmobile (Reply 12): One of the biggest problems was a government requirement that everybody go through border services at the first point of entry into Canada. That meant everybody had to get off the plane in St. John's whether they were continuing on to Halifax or not. It is quite silly, really. If AC wanted to operate the plane into Halifax without picking up passengers in St. John's, the Halifax-destined passengers should have been allowed to clear in Halifax.
They used to permit split clearance. CP Air split-cleared westbound flights from Europe that stopped at YYC or YEG, and various Europe-YYZ flights that sometimes stopped at YUL/YMX. Other carriers did the same thing including AC.
Yyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 14926 posts, RR: 56 Reply 14, posted (1 month 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 208 times:
Quoting LongHauler (Reply 6): Most of this can be pointed at the "Air Canada Act", and its regional and language restrictions. But also, public pressure ... Air Canada is expected to maintain a certain level of service/schedule that no other carrier sees.
Quoting LongHauler (Reply 6): Westjet moves in and out of markets as market dictates, Air Canada does not have the luxury.
AC has full freedom to enter and exit markets.
Quoting LongHauler (Reply 11): The public outcry within Newfoundland was deafening.
So what? AC is a for-profit airline. They are not beholden to public outcry related to market entry & exit. AC's $10M loss on the YYT-LHR route was of AC's own making.
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From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 1335 posts, 
Air Canada's seat mile Flight Operations costs are 68% that of Westjet. But, this makes sense when considering the economies of scale.
From United States, joined May 2000, 7897 posts, 
From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 5522 posts, 
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