I'm not sure if you can access the article from Sunday's Trib without a password, but, in a nutshell:
ANA has asked UAL to use a T-1 gate at ORD for departures to NRT when ANA resumes service this fall (ala DLH.) UAL has not said yes, and they probably won't. Obviously, with the widebody T-1 gates being used by both UAL and DLH, there's not a lot of room. Secondly, ANA is offering (perhaps) a better product on their 777's than UAL is on either their 744's or 777's to NRT. UAL probably wouldn't like the competition. I can't really blame them for not bending over backwards to help them.
IIRC, ANA was not using T-1 for departures when they flew out of ORD in the past. Arrivals and departures were from the international terminal. Correct? Can someone confirm this?
So with ANA's flight, that makes it, what, 2x UAL, 1X AAL, 1X ANA, & 2X JAL ORD-NRT daily? (I'm assuming JAL is going back to 1X daily soon.)
Newark777 From United States, joined Dec 2004, 8796 posts, RR: 37 Reply 2, posted (1 year 12 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3884 times:
Here's the first few paragraphs:
United balks at giving partner use of its gate
By Ameet Sachdev
Tribune staff reporter
Published July 26, 2006
United Airlines has staked its future out of bankruptcy on flying more passengers to international destinations. The competition is so intense that even a so-called airline partner of United has gotten a taste of its hard-nosed attitude.
All Nippon Airways, also known as ANA, has asked United for permission to use one of its gates in Terminal 1 when it restarts a daily, non-stop flight to Tokyo this fall.
But Elk Grove Township-based United does not seem eager to share, even with a fellow partner in the Star Alliance global airline network. Star Alliance members share flight information and feed each other customers.
"Our gate utilization at O'Hare is extremely high at 9 to 10 flights daily," said United spokeswoman Megan McCarthy. "In all cases where we are approached for access to our gates, we must evaluate the impact on our schedule and how any change would impact our customers."
The turf battle illustrates some of the fundamental tensions inherent in airline partnerships. As fuel prices have soared and fares have fallen in the last five years, competitive concerns have at times outweighed an alliance's benefits of reduced costs by sharing information and reservation systems.
The OneWorld alliance, which includes American Airlines, found itself at odds with one of its members, Aer Lingus, after the Irish airline repositioned itself as a low-cost, point-to-point carrier. Created in the 1990s, alliances tend to favor traditional hub-and-spoke airlines that attract the frequent international traveler willing to pay premium fares. Aer Lingus announced in May that it was leaving the partnership.
ORDRyan28 From United States, joined Jul 2006, 987 posts, RR: 11 Reply 3, posted (1 year 12 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3813 times:
I highly doubt UA will say yes...I think it's not only competition for UA, but also a pain because all internation flights (except Canada) need to park at T5 first to go through customs....bad idea...I think ANA will end up at T5 where they belong.
-Ryan
Whoever said winning is not everything never fought cancer.
Pgtravel From United States, joined Oct 2005, 249 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (1 year 12 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3769 times:
The end of the article talks about how UA and LH share gates in ORD, FRA, and MUC, but that's not a very fair comparison. UA and LH have revenue sharing on all transatlantic flights, so they should be treating it just like one of their own. If I were at UA, and my gates were full, I'd tell ANA to go to T5.
CHI787ORD From United States, joined Jun 2005, 489 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (1 year 12 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3740 times:
Also, I personally do not see that much of a benefit from being a T1 instead of T5. It may be better for transfer passengers, but overall it isn't that big of a deal. If its a matter of aesthetics, T5 isnt outdated or cramped or anything.
RoseFlyer From United States, joined Feb 2004, 5085 posts, RR: 15 Reply 6, posted (1 year 12 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3703 times:
Well Star Alliance just opened up their newly renovated terminal in NRT where they put all the Star Alliance airlines in a single terminal. United doesn't share terminal 1 for departures for all of Star Alliance and it does have very high utilization with its own flights to Asia, but are there no widebody gates for ANA to use? It would only be used for an hour. UA has the two gates on the B concourse and I a few on the C concourse that can handle 777s. The timing of ANA's flight should mean most likely that it will be before the four Lufthansa jets get to ORD.
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LOT767-300ER From Poland, joined Jan 2001, 7998 posts, RR: 27 Reply 8, posted (1 year 12 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3619 times:
Quoting Airfinair (Thread starter): IIRC, ANA was not using T-1 for departures when they flew out of ORD in the past. Arrivals and departures were from the international terminal. Correct? Can someone confirm this?
It was a 744 service from T5 only.
Quoting CHI787ORD (Reply 5): Also, I personally do not see that much of a benefit from being a T1 instead of T5. It may be better for transfer passengers, but overall it isn't that big of a deal. If its a matter of aesthetics, T5 isnt outdated or cramped or anything.
Better STAR Connections and Red Carpet rooms I would venture.
Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 6): The timing of ANA's flight should mean most likely that it will be before the four Lufthansa jets get to ORD
Noteworthy to say is that "4"th LH flight is a PrivatAir A319CJ from DUS and it goes out from Terminal 2 sometimes.
Iowa744fan From United States, joined Apr 2004, 920 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (1 year 12 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3524 times:
Is there any mention of what time ANA wants to schedule their flight? If it is around the 11:30am-1pm time slot which seems likely given their schedules in other airports in the USA, it is pretty understandable for United to not offer them a gate. As mentioned, only six gates can accomodate aircraft the size of a 744 or 777 (B16, B17, C10, C16, C18, and C29). During this time slot, they operate a flight to HKG, two to NRT, one to KIX, one to PEK, and one to PVG. They already account for all six gates. There is no reason that UA should move one of its departures to accomodate NH. Plus, they need two of those gates relatively quickly for the first two LH and UA flights to FRA. There is a small gap before the next flights to FRA, MUC, and LHR depart. Plus, there could be 777s going to DEN, IAD, or SFO that they need to fit in there (I don't know how many or even if these go on these routes much). If All Nippon is flexible and can find a time slot when those gates aren't busy, then maybe you would expect UA to help out. However, they should not have to rearrange their ops so that NH can move when T5 has plenty of space.
Airfinair From United States, joined Dec 1999, 595 posts, RR: 2 Reply 10, posted (1 year 12 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3379 times:
Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 8): Noteworthy to say is that "4"th LH flight is a PrivatAir A319CJ from DUS
LH is actually running 5 flights a day to ORD, the PrivatAir from DUS, 3 flights from FRA (LH 430, 432, 448,) and 1 from MUC (LH 434.) So there are currently 4 LH widebody's at T-1 during the day.
And from a great breakdown of the widebody gate usages in T-1 by Iowa744fan, it looks like ANA will most likely be staying at T-5.
United777ORD From United States, joined Mar 2000, 227 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (1 year 12 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3300 times:
Quoting Iowa744fan (Reply 9): As mentioned, only six gates can accomodate aircraft the size of a 744 or 777 (B16, B17, C10, C16, C18, and C29). During this time slot, they operate a flight to HKG, two to NRT, one to KIX, one to PEK, and one to PVG. They already account for all six gates.
Correction. There are actually only five gates (B16, B17, C10, C16/A, C18/A) the 744 uses because these gates have double gate bridges for boarding. Some 777 flights use the five gates used by the 744 but the United terminal has another 10 gates (B2, C9, C11, C15, C17, C19, C20, C21, C23, C29) for simultaneous 777/763 operations. The ORD United terminal has 15 gates that can be used simultaneously for widebody operations without closing other gates due to space limitations. OMP (Ohare Modernization Project) and the city of Chicago need to hurry up and build the new terminal 6 so United can have all of terminal 2 for majority United Express operations and some mainline operations.
UAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 2034 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (1 year 12 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3174 times:
I cannot see it being about ANA offering a better product as to whethere they use the gates in T1 its surely down to whether there is available space, and if there isn't....simple..hello T5.....UA cannot blamed for that!!
Revo1059 From United States, joined Mar 2006, 33 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (1 year 12 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2546 times:
Hope they fly in early like they did before, or there weil be NO room to park them in the middle of the day (there is already 10 lbs of crap in a 5 lbs bag at T5 during the day).
S5FA170 From United States, joined Sep 2005, 534 posts, RR: 3 Reply 15, posted (1 year 12 months 2 days ago) and read 2435 times:
If United had such a problem with ANA offering a superior product to Japan, then why does ANA get whole page advertising in the Hemispheres magazine?
I completely understand United's reasoning about space-limitations. I fly in and out of ORD four out of seven days a week working and that place is always jam-packed.
Ca2ohHP From United States, joined Sep 2005, 688 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (1 year 12 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1799 times:
UA holds onto their gates at ORD for dear life. No surprises there.....US Airways has been going around and around trying to get UA to agree to similar gate issues at T-2 so HP/US could finally integrate their local operation.
ForeverUnited From United States, joined May 2006, 89 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (1 year 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1486 times:
Quoting JAL (Reply 7): I sense trouble in the Star family!
To that I say "Fie!". Star Alliance carriers are most certainly in a position to aide and assist each other when necessary, but it's never been suggested it be at to their detriment. Remember, these are not merged carriers, they are independent airlines who are actually competing on several routes. The alliance is designed to harmonize connections between carriers, not require them to cannibalize their best assets to their competitors who happen to share the same alliance affiliation. While it would understandably benefit United to share a facility with as many Star carriers as possible, in Chicago it's simply not possible. Remember United is forced to split it's own International Arrivals and Departures between two terminals.
With US carriers cash-strapped (and other worldwide carriers less, so) their first loyalty will always be to their pocketbooks (and by extension their shareholders). United's defense of it's facilities is not an indicator of dissension in the ranks; merely a sound business decision in favor of its' customers and stakeholders.
RoseFlyer From United States, joined Feb 2004, 5085 posts, RR: 15 Reply 19, posted (1 year 12 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1465 times:
What amazes me is that this has become a public issue. I can't understand why this was not kept between UA and ANA and how a reporter got involved.
Quoting Warreng24 (Reply 17): UA seems willing to share their gates with LH.
The big difference with LH is that UA also shares their money with them. As previously stated, the two airlines profit share on transatlantic routes. There is no favouritism towards which you book if you call up United and book a ticket to FRA. This is different than the other Star Carriers in ORD. It makes sense to keep connections easier for people going between United and Lufthansa since so many more people connect in ORD to the Lufthansa flights to FRA than to Scandinavian, BMI, and whomever else.
[Edited 2006-07-28 21:31:24]
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