CityAirline From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 302 posts, RR: 0 Posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1404 times:
Hi!!!
I was thinking about what I've heard some people saying: "There's no business pax to MNL, and thats why the routes there don't do very well"... MNL might not be the destination with the highest loads of business pax, but I thought we could talk alittle about AMS-MNL on the 772 (KL).
Some says that the route is doing well, and som says only Y is doing good.
So here is the seat-availability in business on the flight from 2nd-8th March:
(KL's 772's holds 292seats in Y, and 35 in J...a total of 327)
March
2nd:8 seats left
3rd:3 seats left
4th:0 seats left
5th:3 seats left
6th:4 seats left
7th:0 seats left (0 seats left in Y aswell on this one)
To me this sounds pretty good, and I don't think that these numbers are only this time of year.
This flight must be performing good with these numbers? Or do you think something else?
SK601 From Belgium, joined Jun 2005, 937 posts, RR: 5 Reply 1, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1382 times:
KL is flying the non-stop to MNL for quite while, IIRC for about a year now. KL will continue this non-stop service in the new summerseason starting March 28. KL is a very money orientated organisation. If the yield is not good or not according to their expectations, the route will be ceased or frequencies cut. KL will definately not keep a certain route "just because".
I work at AMS-Schiphol about 5-6 days a week and I must say that the MNL is booked full or almost full for most of the times. Even the best performing routes have some days with low loads, MNL as well, but in general C as well as Y class loads are good for MNL. This will not mean that the yield is good, but as stated above, KL will stop the route if it's not profitable.
AeroWesty From United States, joined Oct 2004, 15527 posts, RR: 62 Reply 2, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1356 times:
Simple question, if you were running KLM and you saw prices like this for March 2nd in Business for one-way flights from Asia to AMS, where would you want to deploy planes? (I understand cargo has a lot to do with it too, but assume they were equal.)
MNL-AMS US$2492
NRT-AMS US$4728
HKG-AMS US$3197 (sold out Mar 2)
SIN-AMS US$3391 (sold out Mar 2-7)
Redneckslim From Congo, joined Sep 2005, 97 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1327 times:
I fly my ass off in Z class to MNL from all the west coast airports NWA serves. UA also offers business as well as first, so does Philippines and Japan, who told you there was no Business class to MNL?
Laxintl From United States, joined May 2000, 9236 posts, RR: 12 Reply 5, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1310 times:
Manila anyway you slice it is a lower yield, primarily VFR market.
The reason KLM might have decent loads in biz class on this route has more to do with the fact that its one of the few airlines that continue to serve Manila directly from Europe and thus obviously will manage to collect a fair portion of the smallish premium demand to the Philippines.
Majority of traffic flow & demand to/from the Philippines falls in three major routes, all of them primarily low yield.
-Inter-Asia with the number route being Hong Kong.
-USA for mostly VFR traffic
-Middle East/Gulf States for the huge Filipino labor pool in the region.
While MNL might be holding its own for KLM, I would not take this to mean KLM will not withdraw from the market and redeploy its assests in more profitable manner at some point if an opportunity were to present itself.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
CityAirline From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 302 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1284 times:
Thanks
I know there are other destinations in the region that makes MORE money, but do you think that the route makes or looses $$$?
Will the situation get better in the future with tourists (for example) starting to come as they do now?
Is there any chance that MNL will get a n/s FRA-MNL , since LH will order more aircrafts?
And since we are talking about southeast asia, does CGK have any nonstops to europe, because I didn't seem to find any, and is this for the same reasons as MNL?
KL808 From United States, joined May 1999, 1522 posts, RR: 6 Reply 7, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1274 times:
Quoting Laxintl (Reply 5): The reason KLM might have decent loads in biz class on this route has more to do with the fact that its one of the few airlines that continue to serve Manila directly from Europe and thus obviously will manage to collect a fair portion of the smallish premium demand to the Philippines.
I totally agree with you. With KL and LH as the only European carriers to MNL, and with KL with the only direct non-stop flight to Europe, expect this route to do well.
I believe cargo on this route is very good as well.
KLM and MNL have a long history together, KLM has been serving this route for many many years, It has a lot of brand recognition in the Philippines, therefore I would expect it to be a good route for KL not just for PAX but as well as cargo.
Quoting CityAirline (Reply 6): Is there any chance that MNL will get a n/s FRA-MNL , since LH will order more aircrafts?
This is a good question, with Germany having the most Filipinos in Europe I would expect LH to have a direct link, however it seems that its MNL route isnt doing that well all year round, most of the pax from FRA deplane in CAN. However, again cargo could be generating enough to keep this route alive.
DEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 2801 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1223 times:
Quoting KL808 (Reply 7): I would expect LH to have a direct link, however it seems that its MNL route isnt doing that well all year round,
I believe PR used to have MNL-FRA-MLA with stops in the Middle East but it was discontinued due to thin loads. There was talk of reintroducing the service though I don't know if it has resumed.
Bicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1203 times:
Quoting Redneckslim (Reply 4): UA also offers business as well as first, so
United doesn't fly to Manila. They dropped it because it wasn't making money. Flights were usually filled with non rev employees and their companions. Now those employees non rev to Hong Kong (if there's any room...it's tough) and pay for flights from there to Manila.
Vincewy From Taiwan Region, joined Oct 2005, 541 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1114 times:
Just like flying from US, many people fly with J/C for comfort, not pressed fro time, since nonstop to HKG and NRT are among the most expensive, many opt to go through other cities and connect to HKG or NRT, ie: $5000 nonstop to HKG/NRT, but if you're willing to fly to TPE, ICN with their respective hub carriers, the price is almost 50% less, just do a quick price check on the airlines' respective reservation sites (SQ, CX, JL, BR, CI, OZ, KE).
Many flying with KLM to MNL could be the same, they want to go else where, if there're other competitors on the Europe-MNL flight, you can bet it's much more likely for KLM to drop this route.
UpperDeck79 From Finland, joined Feb 2005, 1134 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1060 times:
Quoting Diesel33 (Reply 11): Are you serious? Haven't heard that rumor before...
Yes, I am: Finnair executives have said in interviews that AY is considering opening routes from Helsinki to Malesia, South Korea and the Philippines in addition to at least one more Chinese city.
MasseyBrown From United States, joined Dec 2002, 3393 posts, RR: 5 Reply 14, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1047 times:
Quoting Laxintl (Reply 5): Manila anyway you slice it is a lower yield, primarily VFR market.
I think VFR has special meaning in the case of the Philippines. Manpower is their most valuable export and while the "manpower" does go home periodically to visit friends and relatives it is often as a part of the employment contract and not always at the lowest economy fare. US routes (including Guam) are low yield, but the Gulf and European routes are higher, according to a commercial attache source at their Washington Embassy.
Andaman From Finland, joined Oct 2005, 2204 posts, RR: 3 Reply 15, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 949 times:
Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 13):
Yes, I am: Finnair executives have said in interviews that AY is considering opening routes from Helsinki to Malesia, South Korea and the Philippines in addition to at least one more Chinese city.
True, their CEO said that himself, though Manila would come after KUL and Seoul I guess. Would be HEL-HKG-MNL perhaps? Finnair has plans to open couple of new Asian destinations every year in future.
Chinese cookie in SFO: "You're doomed to a life of forever travelling abroad and to be able to afford it!"
Andaman From Finland, joined Oct 2005, 2204 posts, RR: 3 Reply 17, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 869 times:
Quoting KL808 (Reply 16):
I think if this is the case then, It would probably be doomed. Extending the HKG run to MNL would just extend the saturation on that route.
Remember LX and BA use to route their MNL route through HKG, and where are they now?
They should offer direct in my opinion or route it via somewhere else.
Drew
You must be right, KUL and Seoul make more sense anyway. Curious to see which will be the new destinations 2007, this year Nagoya and Delhi.
Chinese cookie in SFO: "You're doomed to a life of forever travelling abroad and to be able to afford it!"
CityAirline From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 302 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 795 times:
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 2): Simple question, if you were running KLM and you saw prices like this for March 2nd in Business for one-way flights from Asia to AMS, where would you want to deploy planes? (I understand cargo has a lot to do with it too, but assume they were equal.)
MNL-AMS US$2492
NRT-AMS US$4728
HKG-AMS US$3197 (sold out Mar 2)
SIN-AMS US$3391 (sold out Mar 2-7)
It doesn't make for a real good case for MNL.
Maybe the business seats are a bit more expencive, but don't tell me that Y is really cheap, because MNL are one of the most expencive destinations in asia. Actually, today, I was reading the newspaper and saw this commercial for a travel agency, and MNL was the most expencive of all the larger asian cities, and it wasn't the first time I saw that...
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