777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 8832 posts, RR: 14 Reply 1, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 10706 times:
Where did you get this information from? Do you know what model CRJs and ERJs?. Still hope that the 717 will get some order from the 3 other Star members
Merry Christmas
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Air Canada confirms 90 aircraft order from Bombardier and Embraer
MONTREAL, Dec. 19 /CNW Telbec/ - Air Canada today announced it has
reached agreements in principle to purchase 45 Bombardier and 45 Embraer
aircraft as part of its previously announced North American fleet strategy. A
decision on an additional 15 aircraft will be made following further
negotiation. These manufacturers were chosen following an evaluation of
aircraft types in the 50-, 70- and 100-seat categories from amongst the
world's leading aircraft manufacturers.
"Now that we have clarity in the completion of our equity process,
pressing matters relating to Air Canada's restructuring should proceed without
delay in the interests of all stakeholders. The small jet aircraft are
fundamental to our emergence as a stronger, more cost effective airline. For
this reason we are moving forward with this order now," said Robert Milton,
President and Chief Executive Officer. "We are confident that our decision is
in the best interests of our customers and economic stakeholders. For
customers, these aircraft mean low cost, high frequency jet service to a wide
selection of destinations in Canada and the United States. For Air Canada,
they will provide the flexibility and cost-competitiveness to serve dozens of
North American markets on a financially viable basis.
"The choice of Bombardier and Embraer aircraft was made following a
lengthy and rigorous evaluation during which we considered the feedback from
all stakeholder groups including customers and employees. Air Canada was one
of the original launch customers for the Canadair Regional Jet and today's
announcement reflects our continued support of Canada's aerospace industry and
its ability to meet our requirements for regional jet aircraft given the
complexities of our business environment."
Bombardier
----------
The Bombardier order consists of 15 firm 50-seat CRJ-200 and 30 firm 74-
seat CRJ-705 aircraft. Aircraft deliveries are scheduled to begin in September
2004. The order also contemplates the potential for Air Canada to exercise
options to acquire 45 additional aircraft.
Air Canada will configure the CRJ-200 aircraft in a single Hospitality
class of service with 50 all-leather seats, four seats abreast offering 31
inches of legroom. The Bombardier CRJ-200 aircraft has a cruising speed of
860 km/h and a range of up 3,700 kms with a total payload of 6,124 kgs.
The CRJ-705 aircraft will be configured in two classes of service with
nine seats in Executive Class featuring three abreast seating offering 38
inches of legroom, and 65 seats in Hospitality with four abreast seating
offering 33 inches of legroom. Both cabins will feature all leather seating.
The Bombardier CRJ-705 aircraft has a cruising speed of 827 km/h and a range
of up to 3,816 kms with a total payload of 7,778 kgs including a cargo payload
of 700 kgs.
The Air Canada family of airlines is one of the world's largest operators
of Canadian-built aircraft with 47 Dash 8-100s, 26 Dash 8-300s, 25 CRJ-100s
and 10 CRJ-200s currently in service.
Embraer
-------
The Embraer order consists of 45 firm 93-seat Embraer 190 aircraft.
Deliveries are scheduled to begin in November 2005. The order also
contemplates the potential for Air Canada to exercise options to acquire 45
additional aircraft.
Air Canada will configure the Embraer 190 aircraft in two classes of
service with 9 seats in Executive Class with three abreast seating offering 38
inches of legroom, and 84 seats in Hospitality with four abreast seating
offering 33 inches of legroom. Both cabins will feature all leather seating
and spacious overhead bins. The Embraer 190 aircraft has a cruising speed of
769 km/h and a range of up to 2,963 kms with a total payload of 9,800 kgs
including a cargo payload of 1,100 kgs.
Both purchase commitments are subject to a number of conditions including
financing on satisfactory commercial terms, final documentation and obtaining
requisite approvals, which may include those from Trinity Time Investments
under the Court-approved Trinity Time Investment Agreement, GE Canada Finance
Inc. in its capacity as DIP financing lender and the Court overseeing the
company's restructuring under the Companies' Creditors Arrangement Act (CCAA).
As previously announced, GECAS has also agreed in principle to provide a
maximum of approximately USD $950 million to finance up to 43 regional
aircraft, for which financing is expected to occur through a series of
transactions. This regional aircraft financing is subject to, among other
things, maintaining a specified credit rating following Air Canada's emergence
from CCAA.
As part of the labour restructuring negotiations last spring, an
arbitration process was established to determine which pilot group, as between
ACPA (for Air Canada) and ALPA (for Jazz) would operate any new aircraft in
the small jet category. As a result of these orders, this process will
commence shortly and the final aircraft manufacturer and model selection may
vary depending upon the outcome of this process.
This order follows an extensive evaluation of the candidate aircraft
carried out by Air Canada with three of its Star Alliance partners sharing a
common view to reduce costs through standardization and leveraging joint
purchasing power.
Planemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 3475 posts, RR: 18 Reply 4, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 10566 times:
No surprise with the order... except for the CRJ-200's. I would have rather seen the CRJ-700 with 9 Executive Class and 50 Hospitality seats. As has been repeated many, many times, the AC order came down to politics for the 70 seat end and the best aircraft for the upper end of the order.
AC_B777 From Canada, joined Aug 2000, 669 posts, RR: 7 Reply 5, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 10496 times:
Well, I'm disappointed that a least part of the order didn't go to Boeing. I was really hoping to see the 717 come on board with us. Too bad. I guess it didn't meet the requirements or the price.
I am looking forward though to seeing the ERJ's. I think the 190 is a nice looking a/c, sort of like "mini me" A320. I hope they prove to be a good machine in our environment and in our fleet.
AC_B777
"The finish line of one race is just the beginning of a whole new race"
Caribb From Canada, joined Nov 1999, 1521 posts, RR: 9 Reply 6, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 10437 times:
The CRJ-705 aircraft will be configured in two classes of service with
nine seats in Executive Class featuring three abreast seating offering 38
inches of legroom, and 65 seats in Hospitality with four abreast seating
offering 33 inches of legroom
Planemaker.. well close enough I guess.. I'm not sure it was all political. There is some benefit to continue using an aircraft you already have in service. The -700s have some commonality so their order isn't really all that surprising. I would have like to see the 717 in the fleet though.
I'm curious to see how the other Star members split their orders now, or do they go with one model.
Vector From Brazil, joined Apr 2000, 214 posts, RR: 12 Reply 7, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10288 times:
This order in very important to Embraer 190 programm.
Now we have great chaces to win more orders from other Star Alliance partners. Air Canada is the secand Star Alliance member to choose Embraer´s as LOT polish already ordered the 170 (before enter the Star team).
For sure the lower end of the order goes to Bombardier for 3 reasons:
Dellatorre From Brazil, joined May 2000, 917 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 10226 times:
just much like US did!! 50% each! I hope SAS/LH/OS don't follow the same basis! Instead of been diplomatic, they should go for the better product! EMBRAER!
Sorry, but Boeing and Airbus weren't even close! They should stick with the mainline and forget the RJ market!!! No chance competing with EMBRAER and "BOMBARDIER, I guess".
Kempa From Brazil, joined Aug 2003, 364 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 10156 times:
It is a very smart move.
Air Canada doesn't antagonize the Montreal planemakers, buying what they have to offer, and buying from Embraer what Bombardier doesn't offer. This way they silence any claims of unfair dealing, and of betraying their country's industry.
Captaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6377 posts, RR: 60 Reply 12, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 10071 times:
I too am happy with this deal, and am not too surprised. I also wish the 717 got part of the order, but I guess that wasn't meant to be. Hopefully Boeing doesn't announce soon that they are cancelling the 717 program, but it wouldn't be a shock if they did.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
CanadaEH From Canada, joined Jul 2003, 1341 posts, RR: 5 Reply 13, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 10002 times:
I don't think anybody is shocked by the choices Air Canada has made. Having gotten the "final" word from AC on its order, I wonder what competition is thinking? All's been quiet on the Jetsgo/Westjet front lately, I wonder what the response will be from those airlines? I know Westjet has expressed interest in the Embraer product and Jetsgo in the older F100 or 717 (I think?). 2004 is shaping up to be one hell of an interesting year in Canada, that's for sure...
F4N From United States, joined Mar 2000, 521 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 9985 times:
To all:
While I'm sure that there are lots of public smiles and expressions of satisfaction all around, there has to be some po'd executives at Bombardier and some serious gloating in Brazil. A bankrupt flag carrier using taxpayer money to buy a competitor's product.
Skywatcher From Canada, joined Sep 2002, 290 posts, RR: 3 Reply 16, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 9922 times:
This is just plain old fashioned common sense.
Both manufacturers offered strengths in different areas.
The comments about Embraer being "better economics and price" are unfair. Both manufacturers claim the same thing and in fact it is very, very debateable since the ERJ-190 is not even in service yet.Embraer is also just as adept at playing "politics" as BBD. It is just a fact of life.
There seems to be alot of variables that can come into play that may change the mix and even the entire order itself. It sounds very complex and tentative to me.
RayChuang From United States, joined Jun 2000, 6884 posts, RR: 6 Reply 20, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 9726 times:
The fact that AC will buy the Embraer 190 means it's now much more likely that other Star Alliance airlines that are in this deal will buy the Embraer 190.
Don't be surprised that Embraer's production line is going to be VERY busy from 2005 on.
Pity that the Fairchild-Dornier 728/928 program ended; otherwise, F-D would have hugely benefited from this deal.
Captaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6377 posts, RR: 60 Reply 21, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 9710 times:
Big question is, who gets to fly the new jets? My guess is at least the CRJ 200's will go to Jazz, and the 705's and the Embraer's will go to the mainline Air Canada fleet, but I'm sure the pilots will be duking it out over who flies them. Air Canada mainline pilots feel they are the only ones who should fly jets. In the mean time, Air Canada CRJ pilots are paid a pittance while the wide-body pilots are very well paid. I think it's time to rethink the whole pilot compensation at Air Canada.
CanadaEH and Fallingeese ... every year we all say "it's going to be an interesting year for aviation in Canada" and we are always right! It seems to never be dull. When was the last time we had a boring year in Canadian aviation? Hopefully the excitement will be focused in positive ways though, enough of all the negatives.
With American Airlines retiring their large fleet of F100's, Jetsgo has many aircraft to choose from. Spare parts were beginning to be a problem for American Airlines, but with these aircraft being retired, this will unlikely be an issue for the much smaller fleet that Jetsgo may operate.
And regarding the Canjet deal, people are saying it will be up to 20 737-500's for them. Others say 757 and also 73G, but the most reliable sources claim it's the 737-500's. I can't wait to find out officially on that one as well!
[Edited 2003-12-19 16:32:55]
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
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